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Post by psycho on Aug 19, 2006 8:25:35 GMT -6
Here is a Marlin 450 I bought this past winter/spring. I have to admit, I wasnt sure what I was getting myself into with this caliber. I was hearing both sides of the story about its kick and muzzleblast. Well once turkey season ended I set up a few targets and gave her a shot or 5 ;D I must say I really like shooting this rifle. Its gonna put the wop to a black bear this fall/winter.. I cant wait. For open sights it is very accurate right out of the box. At 25 yards I was like 2 inches off dead center and grouping very well...Yeah I know, 25 yards Well I also grouped at 50 for the heck of it and was only 2 1/2-3 inches off center. Since this is a up close and personal gun I probably wont have a shot farther than 25 yards while bear hunting, and at that range I wanted a gun that will put the hurt to a big black bear. Anyways here is the gun
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Post by DocHolladay on Aug 20, 2006 20:54:20 GMT -6
Sweet rifle. I think Bubba and BigBlue can give you a few pointers on big bores.
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Post by smokepolehall on Aug 21, 2006 8:36:33 GMT -6
Ah yes a punkin chunker, i spect it will do all you need it to. Out to 100 yds. it works good. Go clobber Blackie!
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Post by bigblue on Aug 22, 2006 17:48:49 GMT -6
Since this is a up close and personal gun I probably wont have a shot farther than 25 yards while bear hunting, and at that range I wanted a gun that will put the hurt to a big black bear. Great looking rifle, CONGRATS! At 25 yards for black bear, you got the right rifle! It should hammer the excrement out of 'em. ;D If you decide you want to hunt at longer distances, but stay with iron sights, the Williams peep or aperature sight works great on these rifles. Especially when coupled with a front firesight. They are real quick to aim and I think the peep would give you better groups. I think Bubba has that set up on his latest and shortest 45/70. What ammo are you using in it? Did you shoot it from a bench rest? Don
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Post by psycho on Aug 23, 2006 6:12:26 GMT -6
I was using hornady(405gr), but not the new lever evolution, and no I was just standing there free handing it. There is a good possibility of having to free hand on a bear or pull up on a charging bear so I needed to see what I could do off hand. Last year I had a tree for a rest and needed it to keep from hitting a dog and that was at 10 yards. Ill definitely remember this post if I need to iron shoot out to farther distances.. Thanks for the idea.
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Post by bigblue on Aug 23, 2006 19:29:46 GMT -6
pyscho, The reason I asked about shooting from the bench was that whenever I work up a load for the 45/70, I use a bench to eliminate my own shooter error. There is something about the angle you hold the rifle at the bench that sure leaves your shoulder with a few colors it never had before. Standing and shooting it doesn't seem to hit your shoulder in the same place and it absorbs the hit better. The 405 Hornady's should work fine. I've also used their 350gr. round nose bullets. Once I have a load I plan to use, I usually move away from the bench and the standard targets and go to the cheap 6" paper plates for practice. I figure if I can hit them I'm good for any big game I'm hunting. Don
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Post by smokepole on Aug 24, 2006 12:06:54 GMT -6
Great looking rifle it looks like it will stop a bear in its tracks.
smokepole
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Post by bubbawitha4570 on Aug 25, 2006 6:40:17 GMT -6
25 yards!!??!?!?!?!?!?!? ; ;)D That doesn't even qualify for groupings!!!!! Just kidding, you didn't say which way the point of impact is off center. If up/down; the rear sight will help that one out well enough. And you can drift the front sight over right/left enough to "adjust" for windage; even the rear sight can be moved only so much to compensate also. Reason I gave you the hard time about the range and your estimation of the ranges of effectiveness of this rifle....I hunt with mine in 45/70 regularly. Longest kill was at 280 yards, factory sights. Given, this is the exception, but you get the idea. You should have mucho funno with that rifle. I do think that you are "slightly" over calibered though....
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Post by psycho on Aug 25, 2006 6:55:30 GMT -6
over calibered....maybe, but if I come across a 500lb+ Black bear...I want full penetration and to put a hurt on him.. A 30-30 is just an itch to a bear that size... 45-70 and 450 are the same, just the 450 has a little more powder. The 45-70 can be juiced to do the same, but I wanted the best ballistics. I compared the 444, 45-70, and 450 marlins. The 450 and 444 were far better in the ballistics category, but since the 444 was not offered on the short guide gun I went with the 450.. The ballistics on the 450 are the best of the 3 anyways. When I get some hornady leverevolutions I may try it on a whitetail... ;D
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Post by bubbawitha4570 on Aug 25, 2006 8:21:17 GMT -6
there are alot of discussions dealing with the 450 vs 45/70 in the levergun circles. Most of those guys are saying that you can load the good old 45/70 to the velocities/pressures that the 450 gets anyway. Marlin/Hornady only wanted to make sure the high pressure junkies don't blow up some older low pressure actions or something like that. The belt prevents you from actually being able to get the shell into the chamber at all. Actually, the only benefit of having the 450 over the 45/70 comes if you don't reload. That way you can have the higher pressure/velocites over the factory loaded 45/70's out there. I am not including the offerings from smaller manufacturers like Buffalo Bore and such in that statement. I have, in my youth, loaded up 45/70 loads that would jar my brain loose. The deer and such are not any deader from my current loadings than those, and the current ones are much more pleasant to shoot alot of. I have never bear hunted, and probably would go to an uploaded, heavier bullet, than I currently use, but still would not need to go into the levels of stupidity that i used to go to. It is not that I don't want to go bear hunting, they just don't live here anymore.... And trust me, those heavy loads do make one heck of a mess on prairie dogs. ;D ;D ;D ....400 grains of jacketed lead flying out at around 2,000 fps...makes mucho mess of those little guys.
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Post by bubbawitha4570 on Aug 25, 2006 8:24:11 GMT -6
over calibered....maybe, but if I come across a 500lb+ Black bear...I want full penetration and to put a hurt on him.. A 30-30 is just an itch to a bear that size... 45-70 and 450 are the same, just the 450 has a little more powder. The 45-70 can be juiced to do the same, but I wanted the best ballistics. I compared the 444, 45-70, and 450 marlins. The 450 and 444 were far better in the ballistics category, but since the 444 was not offered on the short guide gun I went with the 450.. The ballistics on the 450 are the best of the 3 anyways. When I get some hornady leverevolutions I may try it on a whitetail... ;D In the over calibered statement: I was being facetious by the amount of case volume difference between the two. No more than that. I know that everyone has their own thoughts on things. Mine just happen to be correct 95% of the time. ;D (totally joking here)
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Post by bigblue on Aug 26, 2006 17:50:53 GMT -6
The 45/70 versus the .450 Marlin arguement is as old as the .450 Marlin itself. The 45/70 is more of a reloaders cartridge and the .450 Marlin for those that don't. They share the same bore, comparativly the same size case, and available in many of the same lever action rifles. While the SAAMI specs for the trapdoor 45/70 hold the pressure to 28,000PSI, the modern Marlin lever actions at 40,000PSI, and the Ruger #1 and #3 at 50,000PSI, the .450 is 43,000PSI. With the outside fired case dimensions differing only by .009" measured at about a 1/2" forward of the base, they are pretty much the same. The difference is in the thickness of the base and sidewalls, with the .450 being the heavier, it's case weighs 220.1gr. and the 45/70 weighs 172.9gr. The 45/70 however will hold more powder. Measured in amount of water it will hold, the 450 will hold 76.8gr. and the 45/70 83.1gr. According to Marlin, the .450 Marlin was developed to prevent higher pressure modern 45/70 loads from accidently being used in the older rifles that aren't capable of handling those pressures. Well, just my opinion here, but those higher pressure 45/70 loads are still being produced, the trapdoor rifles are still being used, so I can't see how the .450 Marlin has changed anything in that respect. The .450 Marlin is a fine cartridge as is the 45/70. Ballistically the 100 plus year old 45/70 can do anything the .450 Marlin can do if loaded to the same pressure levels, with the same bullet, and at the same velocity. Don
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Post by bubbawitha4570 on Sept 8, 2006 19:31:05 GMT -6
The 45/70 versus the .450 Marlin arguement is as old as the .450 Marlin itself. The 45/70 is more of a reloaders cartridge and the .450 Marlin for those that don't. They share the same bore, comparativly the same size case, and available in many of the same lever action rifles. While the SAAMI specs for the trapdoor 45/70 hold the pressure to 28,000PSI, the modern Marlin lever actions at 40,000PSI, and the Ruger #1 and #3 at 50,000PSI, the .450 is 43,000PSI. With the outside fired case dimensions differing only by .009" measured at about a 1/2" forward of the base, they are pretty much the same. The difference is in the thickness of the base and sidewalls, with the .450 being the heavier, it's case weighs 220.1gr. and the 45/70 weighs 172.9gr. The 45/70 however will hold more powder. Measured in amount of water it will hold, the 450 will hold 76.8gr. and the 45/70 83.1gr. According to Marlin, the .450 Marlin was developed to prevent higher pressure modern 45/70 loads from accidently being used in the older rifles that aren't capable of handling those pressures. Well, just my opinion here, but those higher pressure 45/70 loads are still being produced, the trapdoor rifles are still being used, so I can't see how the .450 Marlin has changed anything in that respect. The .450 Marlin is a fine cartridge as is the 45/70. Ballistically the 100 plus year old 45/70 can do anything the .450 Marlin can do if loaded to the same pressure levels, with the same bullet, and at the same velocity. Don You said it in more detail, I just condensed the thoughts. Great minds think alike!!!! I'm just more ethereal in most thoughts.....
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Post by bigblue on Sept 10, 2006 5:54:05 GMT -6
I'm just more ethereal in most thoughts..... Doc, Is he allowed to use that word "ethereal", on this forum? Sounds dirty to me! Don
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Post by DocHolladay on Sept 10, 2006 11:50:15 GMT -6
I'm just more ethereal in most thoughts..... Doc, Is he allowed to use that word "ethereal", on this forum? Sounds dirty to me! Don I will let him slide this time, but I might have to take administrative action next time. ;D ;D
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